NEED RESPONSE - Topic 6: Glossary: "FIGURE"

[Laurence Creider]

At this point, I vote no on this term.  1) I don't think it adds anything
to the definition of plate.  2) "Is" vs "contains" is bound to be somewhat
confusing.  Trying to explain to beginning catalogers the difference
between a related work entry and an analytic entry was something that
usually took several tries and a few months before they "grocked" the
concept.  3) And I doubt that the "unqualified" people Sandra refers to
will be consulting DCRB.  Most cataloging errors seem to result when a
cataloger doesn't realize there might be a problem.
	Larry
	Head, General Cataloging Unit
	New Mexico State University Library
	Las Cruces, NM
	505-646-4707
	lcreider@lib.nmsu.edu


 On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Sider, Sandra wrote:

> I thought about including "Figure" because I see cataloguing descriptions
> that seem to confuse "figure" and "plate."  In this Age of Recon,
> unqualified folks are trying to do multitudes of rare book records.
> 
> Sandra 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Deborah J. Leslie [SMTP:DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu]
> > Sent:	Wednesday, November 03, 1999 10:16 AM
> > To:	'dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu'
> > Subject:	RE: NEED RESPONSE - Topic 6: Glossary: "FIGURE"
> > 
> > No--I don't see why it ought to be included. Do you have an argument to
> > support its inclusion? --DJL
> > 
> > ________________________
> > Deborah J. Leslie
> > Head of Cataloging
> > Folger Shakespeare Library
> > 201 East Capitol Street, S.E.
> > Washington, D.C. 20003
> > (202) 675-0369
> > (202) 675-0328 (fax)
> > djleslie@folger.edu
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sider, Sandra [mailto:Sandra.Sider@sothebys.com]
> > Sent: 03 November 1999 9:59 AM
> > To: 'DCRB-l@lib.byu.edu'
> > Subject: NEED RESPONSE - Topic 6: Glossary: "FIGURE"
> > 
> > 
> > Could everyone please take a moment to vote "YES" or "NO" about whether
> > "Figure" should be included in the DCRB Glossary?
> > 
> > Also, here is how I see it:
> > While a figure IS (usually) an illustration, a plate CONTAINS illustrative
> > material--whether a numbered figure or not. Yes?  
> > 
> > Thanks, Sandra  
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:	Manon Theroux [SMTP:manon.theroux@yale.edu]
> > > Sent:	Tuesday, November 02, 1999 8:36 PM
> > > To:	dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu
> > > Subject:	Topic 6: Glossary: "FIGURE"
> > > 
> > > First, what is the rationale for adding the term in the first place?
> > Will
> > > it appear in the DCRM rules?  If not, why do we need it in the glossary?
> > > 
> > > As for the definition itself, it seems natural to first consult existing
> > > glossaries.  Glaister's Encyclopedia of the Book (2nd ed.) has a
> > > definition
> > > that closely resembles Sandra's earlier version:
> > >  
> > > "figure:  1. an illustration on a page of text with which it is printed
> > > from a forme imposed together with type. Cf. plate.  2. see numerals."
> > > 
> > > I find no definition in either Carter's ABC for Book Collectors (7th
> > ed.)
> > > or Peters's The Bookman's Glossary (5th ed.) .
> > > 
> > > Is there an authoritative source that backs up the revised definition
> > > suggested below?  If plates can also contain figures, then how does a
> > > figure differ from an illustration?  And how does the numbering fit in?
> > > 
> > > --Manon
> > > -------------------------------------------------
> > > >From: "Sider, Sandra" <Sandra.Sider@sothebys.com>
> > > >To: "'dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu'" <dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu>
> > > >Subject: I must be stupid today--Elizabeth is correct re. "FIGURE"
> > > >Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:21:05 +0100
> > > >
> > > >Everyone should ignore my previous post re. "figure."  I have edited
> > the
> > > >entry for "Figure" below, q.v.
> > > >
> > > >Any further comments?
> > > >
> > > 
> > > >> Figure.  [N.B.: new term.]  An illustration printed on a page of
> > text,
> > > >> or printed on a page which is an integral part of a gathering.
> > Plates
> > > can
> > > >> also contain numbered figures. See also Plate.
> > > >> 
> > > >> Plate.  A primarily illustrative leaf that is (usually) not an
> > integral
> > > >> part of a gathering.  Tables, scores, and similar material printed on
> > > leaves
> > > >> that are not an integral part of a gathering are also treated as
> > > plates.
> > >  See
> > > >> also Figure.
> > 
> > 
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