DCRM(S) area 4

Patrick J. Russell dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu
Thu, 3 May 2001 22:33:23 -0700


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Sorry about my delay in replying, trying to iron out retirement details,
adjusting to new situation, andworking part time at Grad. Theological Union
Library (Berkeley).  However, here goes on Serials (not my forte)

i agree basically with Jane's point on Roman numerals, and with the need to
transribe addresses.

Also, I agree that as much as possible we should be consistent acroos
"formats" (books, serials, maps, etc.)  Of course this is not always
possible, but many variations seem to me arbitrary, and confusing to user of
the catalog, let alone time consuming for the cataloger to figure out which
"convention" to follow.

As to "what" should be $b or $c (the "moon" instance) to some extent this is
question of interpretation and context.  I'll take the person's word for it
that in the case in point "sign of the moon" refers to date(s), but it
could, in a certain context, be an address or "name" of a place of ...
Agree that if "date" data, should go in $c.

Patrick



  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu [mailto:owner-dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu]On Behalf
Of Jane Gillis
  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:36 AM
  To: dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu
  Subject: Re: DCRM(S) area 4


  I am sending this again.  Don't know if everyone got it.

  While everyone is thinking about Juliet's question on area 4, may I add
another concerning Roman numerals?

  Bob pointed out that DCRM(S) differed from DCRB in the area of Roman
numerals, which are:

  Roman numerals.  When roman numerals appear as Gregorian or Julian years,
change them to arabic numerals unless they are erroneous or misprinted.

  , anno gratiae 1614
  (On publication: Anno gratiae MDCXIV)

  Transcribe years other than Gregorian or Julian as they appear.

  , an VII 1798
  (On publication: An VII, 1798)

  Optionally, if it is considered important to retain in the catalog record
the exact expression of the date, transcribe the date as it appears in roman
numerals and add the date in arabic numerals in square brackets.

  , MDCLVI [1656]

  Fictitious or incorrect dates.  When the year of publication or printing
is known to be fictitious or is incorrect, transcribe it as it appears and
add the real or correct year in square brackets.  (If the full imprint is
fictitious or incorrect, apply 4A4.)

  , DMLII [i.e. 1552]

  Juliet and I have discussed these rules and have decided that we will
follow what DCRM will be doing in other formats, especially (G) and (B).
Before we change what we have, the committee should consider whether any
changes are to be made to DCRM.  Specifically,

  1. Why change Roman numerals to arabic, without brackets, only when the
numerals appear as Gregorian or Julian years?

  2. And only those Gregorian or Julian years that are not erroneous or
misprinted?

  3. What is the reason for not transcribing Roman numerals as Roman
numerals no matter what they stand for in the imprint?

  4. Is the date not a transcribed area?

  The simplest solution would seem to be to transcribe what is there,
bracketing if needed the arabic numeral.   Optionally, if the Roman numerals
are not considered important, bracket their translation into arabic
numerals.  The rule concerning Roman numerals would be much simpler.

  How do the rest of you feel?



  Jane Gillis | Rare Book Cataloger|  Sterling Memorial Library
  Yale University | New Haven CT  06520
  (203)432-8383 (voice) | (203)432-7231 (fax) | jane.gillis@ yale.edu

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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D170211305-04052001>Sorry=20
about my delay in replying, trying to iron out retirement details, =
adjusting to=20
new situation, andworking part time at Grad. Theological Union Library=20
(Berkeley).&nbsp; However, here goes on Serials (not my=20
forte)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D170211305-04052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D170211305-04052001>i=20
agree basically with Jane's point on Roman numerals, and with the need =
to=20
transribe addresses.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D170211305-04052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D170211305-04052001>Also,=20
I agree that as much as possible we should be consistent acroos =
"formats"=20
(books, serials, maps, etc.)&nbsp; Of course this is not always =
possible, but=20
many variations seem to me arbitrary, and confusing to user of the =
catalog, let=20
alone time consuming for the cataloger to figure out which "convention" =
to=20
follow.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D170211305-04052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D170211305-04052001>As to=20
"what" should be $b or $c (the "moon" instance) to some extent this is =
question=20
of interpretation and context.&nbsp; I'll take the person's word for it =
that in=20
the case in point "sign of the moon" refers to date(s), but it could, in =
a=20
certain context, be an address or "name" of a place of ...&nbsp; Agree =
that if=20
"date" data, should go in $c.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D170211305-04052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D170211305-04052001>Patrick</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D170211305-04052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D170211305-04052001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D170211305-04052001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
owner-dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu=20
  [mailto:owner-dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jane=20
  Gillis<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:36 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: DCRM(S) area=20
  4<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT size=3D3>I am sending this again.&nbsp; =
Don't know=20
  if everyone got it.<BR><BR>While everyone is thinking about Juliet's =
question=20
  on area 4, may I add another concerning Roman numerals?<BR><BR>Bob =
pointed out=20
  that DCRM(S) differed from DCRB in the area of Roman numerals, which=20
  are:<BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New TUR, Courier" =
size=3D3>Roman=20
  numerals.&nbsp; When roman numerals appear as Gregorian or Julian =
years,=20
  change them to arabic numerals unless they are erroneous or=20
  =
misprinted.<BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X=
-TAB><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB><BR>,=
=20
  anno gratiae 1614<BR>(On publication: Anno gratiae =
MDCXIV)<BR><BR>Transcribe=20
  years other than Gregorian or Julian as they=20
  =
appear.<BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB=
><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB><BR>,=20
  an VII 1798<BR>(On publication: An VII,=20
  =
1798)<BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB><=
BR>Optionally,=20
  if it is considered important to retain in the catalog record the =
exact=20
  expression of the date, transcribe the date as it appears in roman =
numerals=20
  and add the date in arabic numerals in square=20
  =
brackets.<BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-T=
AB><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB><BR>,=20
  MDCLVI [1656]<BR><BR>Fictitious or incorrect dates.&nbsp; When the =
year of=20
  publication or printing is known to be fictitious or is incorrect, =
transcribe=20
  it as it appears and add the real or correct year in square =
brackets.&nbsp;=20
  (If the full imprint is fictitious or incorrect, apply=20
  =
4A4.)<BR><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB><=
X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB><BR>,=20
  DMLII [i.e. 1552]<BR><BR></FONT>Juliet and I have discussed these =
rules and=20
  have decided that we will follow what DCRM will be doing in other =
formats,=20
  especially (G) and (B).&nbsp; Before we change what we have, the =
committee=20
  should consider whether any changes are to be made to DCRM.&nbsp;=20
  Specifically,<BR><BR>1. Why change Roman numerals to arabic, without =
brackets,=20
  only when the numerals appear as Gregorian or Julian years?&nbsp; =
<BR><BR>2.=20
  And only those Gregorian or Julian years that are not erroneous or=20
  misprinted?<BR><BR>3. What is the reason for not transcribing Roman =
numerals=20
  as Roman numerals no matter what they stand for in the =
imprint?<BR><BR>4. Is=20
  the date not a transcribed area?<BR><BR>The simplest solution would =
seem to be=20
  to transcribe what is there, bracketing if needed the arabic=20
  numeral.&nbsp;&nbsp; Optionally, if the Roman numerals are not =
considered=20
  important, bracket their translation into arabic numerals.&nbsp; The =
rule=20
  concerning Roman numerals would be much simpler.<BR><BR>How do the =
rest of you=20
  feel?<BR><BR><BR>
  <DIV>Jane Gillis | Rare Book Cataloger|&nbsp; Sterling Memorial =
Library</DIV>
  <DIV>Yale University | New Haven CT&nbsp; 06520</DIV>
  <DIV>(203)432-8383 (voice) | (203)432-7231 (fax) | jane.gillis@=20
yale.edu</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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