[DCRB-L] Beta version; counting firms

Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:19:01 -0500

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Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:51:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Laurence Creider <lcreider@lib.NMSU.Edu>
To: dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu
Subject: Comments on beta version (fwd)

I think that the editorial committee has performed its work excellently;
my comments are all fairly minor ones and follow. =20
	Larry Creider

DCRM(B) Beta comments

<...>=20
4C6. "Include the number of omitted publishers (or firms) and the
number of omitted places (if more than one) in the supplied phrase."
When are
partnerships firms? Or more precisely when is a partnership created
merely for one particular project and when is it more enduring? Do we
care? I am worried about how to count some of the early 18th century
English bookseller combines for specific editions or titles.

[DJL]=20
 I think a good rule of thumb is how the names are presented in the
imprint. Although a few partnerships were enduring (such as Hitch &
Hawes), most were fluid. We don't need to worry about whether a
partnership is enduring to count it as a firm in the imprint. Here are
some typical 18c English examples:

		London : Printed for Allen and West; J. Mundell and
Company, Edinburgh; and J. & A. Duncan, Glasgow.
=20
 There are 3 firms in preceding imprint.
=20
		 London : printed for T. Longman, B. Law, C. Dilly, G.G.
and J. Robinsons, R. Baldwin, W. Richardson, W. Otridge and Son, J.
Mathews, W. Goldsmith, S. Hayes, J. Scatcherd, W. Bent, and Vernor and
Hood, 1795.
=20
There are 13 firms in preceding imprint.
=20
		London : Printed for T. Longman, B. Law, G. G. J. & J.
Robinson, T. Pote, R. Baldwin, F. & C. Rivington, and W. Goldsmith,
1792.

Likewise, there are 7 firms in preceding imprint.=20
=20
These examples are not surprisingly all from the 1790's, when one sees a
noticeable increase in the number of firm firms, so to speak. In earlier
imprints, even temporary partnerships were typically listed as separate
names. The thing is not to confuse the issue of how to establish the
heading with how to count when cataloging a single work. I never
remember having a problem with this, even though I had to do a lot of it
when working with the ESTC when it was still the 18th-century short
title catalogue. I think a well-chosen example in the rules ought to do
the trick.

Deborah J. Leslie
Folger Library
djleslie@folger.edu

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<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">---------- Forwarded message =
----------</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:51:20 -0700 =
(MST)</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">From: Laurence Creider =
&lt;lcreider@lib.NMSU.Edu&gt;</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">To: =
dcrb-l@lib.byu.edu</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">Subject: Comments on beta version =
(fwd)</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">I =
think that the editorial committee has performed its work =
excellently;</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">my =
comments are all fairly minor ones and follow.&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">Larry Creider</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">DCRM(B) Beta comments</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">&lt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">&#8230;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">&gt; </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">4C6.&nbsp; &quot;Include the number of omitted =
publishers (or firms) and the</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">number</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">of omitted places (if more than one) in the supplied =
phrase.&quot;&nbsp; When are</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">partnerships firms?&nbsp; Or more precisely when is a =
partnership created</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">merely for one particular project and when is it more =
enduring?&nbsp; Do we</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">care?&nbsp; I am worried about how to count some of the =
early 18th century</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">English bookseller combines for specific editions or =
titles.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">[DJL]</FONT></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> </SPAN></P>

&nbsp;I think a good rule =
of thumb is how the names are presented in the =
imprint. =
Although a few partnerships were =
enduring (such as Hitch &amp; Hawes), most were fluid. We don't need to =
worry about whether a partnership is enduring to count it as a firm in =
the imprint. Here are some typical 18c English =
examples:
<UL><UL>
London : Printed for Allen and West; J. Mundell and =
Company, Edinburgh; and J. &amp; A. Duncan, Glasgow.
</UL></UL>
&nbsp;

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Georgia"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Georgia">There are 3 firms</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia"> in</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia">preceding</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia"> imprint.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia"></FONT></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I>&nbsp;</I></B></SPAN></P>
<UL><UL>
<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia"></FONT></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">London : printed =
for T. Longman, B. Law, C. Dilly, G.G. and J. Robinsons, R. =
Baldwin,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">W.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana"> Richar</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">d</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">son, W. Otridge and Son, J. Mathews, W. =
Goldsmith, S. Hayes, J. Scatcherd, W. Bent, and Vernor and Hood, =
1795.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>
</UL></UL>
<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia"></FONT></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I>&nbsp;</I></B></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Georgia">There are</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia">13 firms in preceding =
imprint.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia"></FONT></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I>&nbsp;</I></B></SPAN></P>
<UL><UL>
<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Verdana">London :</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">P</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Verdana">rinted for T. Longman, B. Law, G. G. J. &amp; =
J. Robinson, T. Pote, R. Baldwin, F. &amp; C. Rivington, and W. =
Goldsmith, 1792.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>
</UL></UL>
<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Georgia">Likewise, there are</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia">7 firms in preceding imprint. =
</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Georgia"></FONT></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I></I></B></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><B><I>&nbsp;</I></B></SPAN></P>

These examples are not surprisingly all from the 1790's, when one sees a =
noticeable increase in the number of firm firms, so to =
speak. =
In earlier imprints, =
even temporary partnerships were typically listed as separate names. The =
thing is not to confuse the issue of how to establish the heading with =
how to count when =
cataloging a single work. I never remember having a problem with this, =
even though I had to do a lot of it when working with the ESTC when it =
was still the 18th-century short title catalogue. I think =
a well-chosen example in the =
rules ought to do the trick.

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Georgia">Deborah J. Leslie</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Georgia">Folger Library</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Georgia">djleslie@folger.edu</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

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