[DCRM-L] Fists or Manicules?

[Karen Attar]

It's an intriguing discussion.

I rather like retaining "fist" in a collational formula, referring to a printed fist that has no intrinsic meaning. The aim of the collational formula is to be as concise as possible, and a shorter word aids concision.

And I like "manicules" as a term favoured by researchers when the mark, printed or manuscript, is within the text and has a purpose in pointing to something important.

Differentiating might actually be useful in preventing noise if a user is looking specifically for one use over the other.

Best wishes,
Karen

Dr Karen Attar
Curator of Rare Books and University Art
Senate House Library, University of London
Senate House
Malet St
London WC1E 7HU
Tel. 020 7862 8472

https://research.london.ac.uk/search/fellow/516/dr-karen-attar/


From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> On Behalf Of Hoover, Sarah via DCRM-L
Sent: 22 October 2025 15:36
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Cc: Hoover, Sarah <sehoover at email.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Fists or Manicules?

Hello!

Erin is correct that this has come up in the RBMS Controlled Vocabularies Editorial Group, most recently shortly after the new vocabulary was released. The initial discussion at that time was in favor of separating the terms for printed and manuscript marks into Fists and Manicules, respectively, but since it involved needing a new term proposal for Fists and a change proposal for the existing term Manicules (as well as Indexes, which references Manicules) we put it on hold until we had those proposals to formally discuss. That discussion was a while back now, so if this thread prompts anyone to be interested in working on that set of proposals, please feel free!

Best,
Sarah
CVEG co-editor


Sarah Hoover
Special Collections Cataloger
Wilson Special Collections Library
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
sehoover at email.unc.edu<mailto:sehoover at email.unc.edu>
919-962-4305
she/her/hers


From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>> On Behalf Of Erin Blake via DCRM-L
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 9:21 AM
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>>
Cc: Erin Blake <EBlake at FOLGER.edu<mailto:EBlake at FOLGER.edu>>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Fists or Manicules?

I've got a memory of this being under discussion in the RBMS Controlled Vocabularies Editorial Group, with the thought that "fist" is the appropriate term for the printed symbol and "manicule" for the hand-drawn one.

I think it was set aside during the moratorium, when the old vocabularies were merged into one and migrated from MultiTes to the LC Linked Data Service.

...but it's entirely possible that this is a conversation Deborah J. Leslie and I were having at the Folger, and it hasn't gone beyond us, so I'm hoping she'll jump in.

Erin

_______________________________
Erin Blake, PhD | she/her | Collections Management Systems Administrator and Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | Washington, DC 20003 | eblake at folger.edu<mailto:eblake at folger.edu>
[Folger Shakespeare Library logo]



From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>> On Behalf Of Christine Megowan via DCRM-L
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2025 8:00 AM
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>>
Cc: Christine Megowan <cmegowan at gmail.com<mailto:cmegowan at gmail.com>>
Subject: [DCRM-L] Fists or Manicules?

Hello DCRM-L colleagues,

One of our cataloguers is preparing a signature statement for a book which includes a gathering signed with a pointing hand, which prompted some discussion within our team about the use of "fists" vs. "manicules" in catalogue records.

DCRM(B) 7B9.2 and DCRMR 6.215.44.2 both instruct the cataloguer: "If the gatherings are signed with other unavailable characters, substitute a descriptive term or an abbreviation for that term if a standard abbreviation exists." In both texts, the examples include a pointing hand for which the descriptive term [fist] has been supplied.

If I remember correctly, "fists" was at some point the authorized term for this character in the RBMS Provenance Thesaurus, although I see that it is now a UF under Manicules. I have certainly encountered the term "manicules" more frequently than "fists" when chatting with other bibliophiles.

I confess I am somewhat bothered by the idea of using one term in a signature statement and another in a genre/form heading, but I wondered what the prevailing opinion might be. Would you follow the example and use [fist] in a signature statement, or favour consistency with CVRMC and go with [manicule]?

Best wishes,
Christine Megowan
(Research Collections Discovery & Projects Manager, Heritage Collections, University of Edinburgh)
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